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Interview can be seen on IG @voicesoftheadopted

Unknown Speaker 00:04
Hey, Francine Good. How

Unknown Speaker 00:06
are you?

Unknown Speaker 00:09
Nice. Where are you right now? You look kind of cold.

Unknown Speaker 00:16
Oh, nice.

Unknown Speaker 00:18
That’s, that’s awesome. So um what is it like 30 degrees or something or 40? Okay. I haven’t been outside I’m in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. So

Unknown Speaker 00:32
yeah, well, thank

Unknown Speaker 00:34
you for for joining me here. Um, anyone who’s watching and if you’re not familiar, this is voices of the adopted this Instagram page I created for adoptees to really express their struggles their voice, and just give them the digital virtual space to allow them to express themselves so that other people can learn about adoptees and struggles that people have with adoption, even the adoptive parents really doesn’t matter who you are. This is just for people to kind of come on here and teach really. So that being said, welcome. And then why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself and your story and what your passion is,

Unknown Speaker 01:31
was born in Fort Worth, Texas at undergrad and the gladdie agency in 1984. It was kind of interesting about my story is not in the baby’s era. But my first mother was sent away to stay at Edna Gladney walk during her pregnancy with me, and then release, relinquish the ad agency that kind of stopped in the late 70s. But that was still going on. So that’s kind of how my adoption went down. And then my adoptive parents got me at one week old, and we moved to Houston, and then to Cincinnati. And I always knew I was adopted and always something I thought about all the time and wondered about my adoptive parents had a biological child that was very close in age to me. So I kind of like knew that things were a little bit different. Because it’s kind of like I didn’t have another adopted sibling where our experiences were. So how we came to the family were similar. So I also had a lot of adopted cousins on my mom’s side. So I grew up with a lot of adoptees that I knew. And then when I was 19, I searched for my biological family and reunited with my birth mother. And I never reunited with my birth father, he passed away in 2000. And in 2018, and I started my advocacy, and I have podcast episodes through 2019 and 2020. And going into 2021. So it’s been great.

Unknown Speaker 03:20
Nice. Wow. Okay. So, so going backwards. What you said, you always knew that you were adopted? Do you remember a point in time where your parents actually told you? Or can you remember the earliest memory of kind of figuring out that you’re adopted?

Unknown Speaker 03:42
I think like the earliest memories I really have are, I was given the book that chosen child, I think, is something like that is very old school book, about a couple that picked up a baby. And there’s few other books and I remember reading them to myself, and kind of trying to figure out what adoption was, I guess, like, kind of trying to really under like, I kind of was given the story, but I kind of an inquisitive inquisitive mind. So it’s like there has to be more remember always like searching for information and find out like what is the option? Why why why why why? And see, I don’t really remember a time but I always remember like thinking about it and how questions about it probably than most people thought I would have at that age. So

Unknown Speaker 04:40
what age was that around?

Unknown Speaker 04:42
I would say, like, third grade. Have more independence.

Unknown Speaker 04:52
Yeah. Okay. And when did you say you had other adoptee friends? Did you ever talk to them about that? Or was that later

Unknown Speaker 05:00
on? I actually had four other cousins that were adopted. And we would talk about adoption when we were among ourselves.

Unknown Speaker 05:15
But

Unknown Speaker 05:16
I wouldn’t say we talked about, like our feelings with it. We would kind of group together sometimes. And sometimes they still make a comment, like, Oh, I guess the donkeys are over here, like, you know, because like, about half of us were adoptees and half weren’t. So it was kind of like that, if we ever really talked about it too much. I remember asking my older cousin, you know, have you ever thought about searching? And she told me, You know, I know my parents are, I don’t need to know. And I was thought well, I need to know it. How can you not want to know so it was interesting being in a close relationship with so many adopted people growing up kind of before I formed my own adoptee identity, who all had such different experiences with being adoptees. One of my adopted cousin’s transition. And, you know, he, his experience and how he felt about his adoption is so different than another cousin of mine, you know, this big been reunited for years and years. And her feelings about being an adoptee are very different than even mine. And it’s been really interesting having so many close relationships in my life with adoptees who have been in the same family, but their experiences have been so different than mine.

Unknown Speaker 06:48
Yeah, definitely. Um, the reason why I’m kind of sticking on the fact that you had adoptees as a young kid, that’s interesting. You’re the first person I’ve actually interviewed so far, I think who’ve had almost like an adoptee group. Or you could even consider them a support system. And a lot of adoptees wish that they knew more adoptees growing up. So I want to get to the bottom if you feel like having that adoptee support system was beneficial to you. But it’s like you said that you didn’t feel like you talked about your feelings anyway. So can you like talk about how that group could have helped you or why you didn’t talk about your feelings? Maybe?

Unknown Speaker 07:43
It was because I like I wasn’t like the only person I know that was adopted, which was comforting at times, because it’s like, oh, these other people are close to me or experience or things to me, which was very comforting. where people are effects that too, and how deep they’re willing to really go as a person or conversations.

Unknown Speaker 08:18
Yeah, okay. Because it’s definitely an important it’s important to realize that having an adoptee support system is only going to be effective if you have like you said, adoptees who are on the same wavelength or in the same phase or the same kind of like timeline or whatever you want to call it. So like you need people who are like minded or who are wanting to talk about the things you want to you want to talk about as an adoptee. So not just having other adoptees in your facility. Yes, it provides comfort, but maybe still does not give that that necessary outlet for someone to express their own emotions. Which I think is interesting, something important to note for other people who are saying that they wish they had some type of adoptee support system or a group of friends whose I never had adoptee friends myself. Um, but now it’s like, even if I did have adoptee friends, would I talk about being adopted?

Unknown Speaker 09:20
Yeah. I think maybe if they’re your peers you know, if you’re in a setting where you’re in a relationship where you talk about those things, with one of my cousins, I did have some have had several conversations about adoption. But some people don’t feel safe talking about it, you know, and it has to do with safety level. You know, I think it’s important for young people to know other adoptees and being at ease. I think sometimes like those it has to be like, led by something you know, like Exactly. Right.

Unknown Speaker 10:13
Yeah. So what would you say is the biggest issue that you had growing up? And how did you kind of handle it?

Unknown Speaker 10:23
I think like, really, I think when I look back, one of the most difficult things for me was that my adoption was closed. And I think just not knowing anything. For me, that was like the hardest thing. I think, when there’s a secret, you assume is something bad. And, you know, with adoption, a lot of when things were secrets, and close. I mean, for me, I feel like Why couldn’t I know who she was, where she lived? I couldn’t know where what she was doing. Like, it just seems so unnecessary. And I think it stopped me from talking about adoption as much because it wasn’t like, as easily brought up because what the secret are always feels like a secret. And I think that was the most troubling thing for me, because I’ve always been someone that really enjoys talking about everything. So when there’s nothing to talk about, because you don’t have any information, it’s harder to bring it up and talk about it. And there was just always so much wondering. And so I think that was very difficult for me. I’m not I know, open adoption carries its own.

Unknown Speaker 11:58
Yeah, that’s, I like how you, I like the word you just kind of uses wandering. Because I think that there’s a lot of wandering. That happens for adoptees just just wondering, however you say it wondering. Because I, you know, I was just kind of just the very act of wandering, you know, just because we’re that we’re kind of displaced. So we’re always kind of thinking about hypotheticals. At least I know, I am. Or was when I was younger. That’s cool. What so what about your parents? Did they? I know, it was a closed adoption, but they didn’t have much say in that. Right. It was most mostly the by your biological mother, or was it an agreement?

Unknown Speaker 12:45
It was the agency really operating in that era? There’s no connection between adoptive parents and birth parents. You know, they, they weren’t allowed to know any information. It’s just kind of like, the way it was. And I think it was kind of late to, because I was born in 84. So I think I was kind of in the 90s is when open adoption and kind of more communication between adoptive parents and first family members. No, there was no decision on if it would be open, or if there would be any information. The way it was done.

Unknown Speaker 13:31
Gotcha. And did you feel like you could talk to your parents about any of that? or How were they with you growing up?

Unknown Speaker 13:43
I just didn’t bring up what I was feeling. I think if I had the language for it, also would have helped if I just had known who she was,

Unknown Speaker 13:59
like, okay, you know, your first mother got pregnant, and she wasn’t ready to have a place to for adoption. This is her mother’s day, Father’s Day, and these are her siblings where she lives you know, this is why you’re here and then it just been like facts. Like I could have been you know, would have known when she had her first child that she kept and I could have kind of been like, processed it when I found that out. Not Have to awesome like okay, like we were you were born here this is who your mother is all this information. This actually has three children now she remember you know, all the information just stacked on you at once. I think not being able to process it step by step. So it’s almost like I didn’t know what talk about or ask because weren’t as many opportunities or anything to really bring up I kind of felt like

Unknown Speaker 15:00
Yeah. So, so your digit, I mean, I know that I get that you didn’t have the language. But as children, I don’t think children are not supposed to have the language, and especially adopt the children. So, do you think that your parents were less inclined to help you give you that language? Or is it was it just kind of absent mindedness? Or did they avoid it? Or how was their perception of your adoption and communication for you?

Unknown Speaker 15:35
I think for them, it was the agency to like, say, Oh, you gotta be, don’t bring it up. Don’t make them feel different. You know, just love them, include them be the best parents you can be, you know, and it’s gonna work out. And then, you know, when I started having, you know, a lot of adoptees were diagnosed with a DD ADHD, you know, when those issues start coming up, it’s kind of like, Oh, well, how do we help francy? Like, she’s having all these issues? How do we help her? And I don’t think that they were given the education, that hey, you know, there was a trauma that happened, the trauma is not being addressed. At the ADHD or symptoms of trauma, you know, the trauma is what needs to be addressed on the symptoms. And I think a lot of times the symptoms were always being addressed, not the core trauma, that was the cause. And I think that a lot of adoptive parents kind of when the issues come up, they’re like, Ah, you know, like, what, it’s like a frustration in my generation, because they weren’t given the occasion. There wasn’t much like trauma informed anything. I think like, I was taken to therapists and stuff, but those therapists weren’t trauma informed therapist or doctor, doctor, therapists, you know, hope that that was kind of the core cause. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s been my drive with my advocacy is kind of understanding that, like, these kids aren’t bad kids. They just need the right help. And giving them that space is so important.

Unknown Speaker 17:33
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So what what really helped you through your biggest struggles growing up,

Unknown Speaker 17:45
I get a lot of like arts and crafts, like, I would be alone and like create. And that was always really helpful, kind of finding my own things that I was good at. That was always a good outlet for me.

Unknown Speaker 18:01
Just being just doing creative things alone.

Unknown Speaker 18:07
Yeah, like I think, you know, when you’re an adoptee and you’re a kid, you kind of have to fit in all the time. put on a mask, or, you know, I found school really challenging. So like, I always felt like I had to fit in. So kind of, I was so exhausted, when I wasn’t having to be around, you know, people that just being like, alone and doing artwork kind of plugged me back in almost like I didn’t have to have that face on interacted with people and kind of, you know, having to say and do great things. Like, I felt like I had to do a lot.

Unknown Speaker 18:53
Yeah. What, what’s your relationship now? Now with your parents? Is it? How about your like your mother?

Unknown Speaker 19:05
It’s a good relationship. I’ve had my own boundaries, you know, like,

Unknown Speaker 19:13
of us do.

Unknown Speaker 19:16
I’ve kind of had to decide that I’m gonna have to be me and feel good about myself. And, you know, with my advocacy, I talk about this stuff and the things that went on and as long as I’m being truthful and true to myself, I’m not, you know, trying to hurt anybody. And I’d say, you know, with like, especially with like my adoptive dad, like, I think he tries to understand my advocacy, but I don’t think he gets it. And I think it’s, it has to do more with what he values. I think, you know, for him, a lot of the times it’s like You know, making money, you know, is this making money? Like how are you gonna make money from this, but it’s like, to me like, it’s it’s not about the money, it’s about changing things so that kids don’t have to suffer the way I did as a child. And I’m not like out here to vilify people for not knowing what the right thing to do, but I think we have to talk about it. And, you know, I think my relationship for my with my adoptive family is as deep as they’re able to go with it. And I think what’s really hard sometimes for a lot of adoptees is we find ourselves kind of having to define ourselves outside of our adoptive families, and kind of find connection and kind of like, what our needs outside of that a lot of the times it’s kind of like an accepted saying almost, you know, I’ve kind of accepted what they’re able to accept for me, like I was telling my adoptive mom about my anxiety, and she’s like, you know, people who aren’t adopted have anxiety?

Unknown Speaker 21:10
Yeah. Yeah, I

Unknown Speaker 21:15
spend an hour going on and on and on and on. You know,

Unknown Speaker 21:26
yeah. That’s why I really, always come back to the adoptive parents. Because, yes, there, there needs to be more trauma informed protocols for when adoption occurs. But even if there were to be trauma informed protocols, I’m curious if the the population who does adopt tend to gravitate more towards people who are traumatized themselves, who are emotionally immature, and who are trying to adopt a child to solve their own problems. So even if, say, your parents, my parents, whoever got that trauma informed class or whatever, I’m still just curious, like, how things would progress? because like you said, Your father’s values are just simply different. So are these adoptive parents who are adopting? Do they just simply have different values that would never be able to kind of really absorb or absorb the lessons needed to understand, you know, on the higher, deeper level to really bring an adoptee to where they should be? It’s kind of a, it’s just this weird kind of realm that I think needs to be investigated.

Unknown Speaker 22:59
I think the answer is probably no. And that’s why I think they need education. Because I mean, I hear it all the time. Like, Oh, we don’t have kids, we’ll just adopt.

Unknown Speaker 23:09
Yeah, you

Unknown Speaker 23:09
know, it’s like, I don’t think people understand, like, how self serving adoption to be. I mean, Parenthood, in general, is a little bit self serving. Yeah. I mean, you know, I had kids because I want, I want to have kids, I like having kids. I mean, you know, I think I’m giving them a good life. And I think you know, I am a good parent, I think my spouse is a good parent. And I think that’s all positive. But I think the route to be parents is kind of selfish anyways. And I think a lot of adoptions shouldn’t happen in the first place. And I think, you know, adoptive parent for Jodi is real. The fragility out there is just crazy, like, I make a post and so many people come in my inbox trying to be like, I’m in session. No, no, no, my situation is different. My situation is different. I’m just like, you have to comment. You’re obviously feeling insecure about something like why do you need to rationalize things with me? And so part of the thing I think that needs to happen is just change and the narrative. Yeah. People need to understand what adoption is what does it look like? Really like not like low Orphan Annie? What does it look like? Like, what does it look like? someone finds themselves in this situation, to choose adoption. What’s it like to be a child growing up without your biological family? I mean, I can’t speak on it. But even like, trans racially, like, what would it feel like that way? I don’t think people even think about that. And I think that’s such as important thing to think about and there needs to be such a change in conscience, and what we think is acceptable and I think we think it’s acceptable to make a child and put them In a better, what we feel is a better family. You know, and I think, I think so many adoptive parents probably shouldn’t be adopting in the first place. Because I think when they really find out what it’s about there, it’s not really for them.

Unknown Speaker 25:18
Yeah, yeah. And to take it one step further, I mean, I just think that there’s a lot of parents who shouldn’t be parents in the first place. You know, like, like you said, the norm right now for, for having a child is, have a child, if you really want a child, it’s like, I was talking to my partner, Joelle the other day, you know, like, we need a license to have a friggin car, right? Like, we need a license, we need to go through all these tests, we go to school, to drive a car, but we don’t need a license to be a parent. So we don’t need a license to like, literally grow, and cultivate and develop a human being who could go throughout the rest of their life influencing 1000s 1000s and 1000s of people completely making a difference in the world. But you don’t need a license for that. So I don’t know, I think parenting in general, really needs to be brought to the 21st century. I mean, it’s like, we’re not children are not just children anymore. They’re a little human beings and like, Whatever happens in childhood is really going to affect them for the rest of their life. And it’s like, yeah, we know that childhood psychology. But it’s like that, it shouldn’t be like a little course, in a college, you know, that. You spend like, a semester on it, it should be like, you know, a part of our culture and a part of our, our life and how we parent should be way more important to us, I think. Yeah, for sure. Oh, cool. Um, so I think we covered that What? What would be your message to? Actually, I’m curious about yours. You said you met your biological mother, or? Yeah. And how was that? And when did you When did you do that? And how did you do that?

Unknown Speaker 27:23
I joined the Texas adoption registry, where first family members and adoptees to both register you can match. And she had registered when I was seven years old. And was waiting for me to register. So at 19, I registered, and we were laying, and we both got a letter in the mail that we had. And we met. And it was not something I was ready for. I kind of thought that like as the person and as my journey would be meeting my birth mother, I didn’t really feel realized. That’s like the beginning of kind of a new journey. One that’s more authentic, which I’m happy about. There’s no more about wondering. But yeah, I met her and I just I didn’t have the maturity to have a relationship with her. And I don’t think she realized how she placed me to give me

Unknown Speaker 28:27
to

Unknown Speaker 28:28
she want a better life for me. She wanted to parent family for me. And he would have other adopted brothers and sisters. And when she found out my adopted parents.

Unknown Speaker 28:50
Did you say your parents divorced when you’re four years old?

Unknown Speaker 28:55
To Yeah. So, you know, I was raised by a single mom. And that’s pretty much why she placed me for adoption. But she didn’t want me being raised by a single parent. So I think it was very different. You know, I don’t want to talk about how like her experience, but I think it was very devastating to her to find out that she placed me for adoption, and that my life was significantly more difficult and more challenging. For other children, history other children. It’s very difficult for her. When I met her she was everything I ever wanted. I got from a parent. And then that was hard for me. So kind of realizing that adoption, our situation hadn’t been what it was intended intended for. It was very hard for both of us and it was hard. I think it was hard. It constantly reminded her of the decision she made and kind of having to talk to me in here. About my difficulties kind of reminded her that she kind of was the cause of it. Not really, but her decision. So, it was hard to have relationships. You know, especially when you have no foundation and I was so young, she had a little baby at the time. So it was difficult you know, we have a relationship now we stay in touch but now it’s just it’s very difficult emotional.

Unknown Speaker 30:35
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, it’s, it’s, it’s such a radical experience and such a complex in depth, emotional roller coaster, and even just the logical side of adoption. And being an adoptee with all of our different situations, it’s just hard to wrap your head around as an adoptee let alone as someone who’s not adopted, which only adds to the isolating feelings. So it’s, it is crazy, like, but that’s what’s also so cool about again, and kind of the purpose of this page is to talk about our suffering, it really shows the, the vulnerability shows the strength and the resiliency and the fact that we are constantly living with someone else’s decision and trauma and, and having these feelings that a lot of people can’t relate to, you know, a lot of people have, like your mother said, depression and anxiety on itself. But we have that extra layer. That makes things so much more complicated, especially the more you think about it, the more you try and dive into it, which I think can also be a problem. A lot of adoptees get fixated on trying to figure out every single little reason why they are the way they are, which is good to a degree but then you start to absorb and associate and identify with all that negativity and all that trauma, and you lose who you actually are. So there’s again, just another layer and it’s just, it’s all very interesting. But um,

Unknown Speaker 32:12
but yeah,

Unknown Speaker 32:14
well, cool. That’s I I haven’t met my biological mother yet. I met my I met two of my sisters. I actually traveled to Sweden and Denmark to meet them. just crazy.

Unknown Speaker 32:28
But I’m still alive.

Unknown Speaker 32:31
What was that?

Unknown Speaker 32:34
They’re still living?

Unknown Speaker 32:36
Yeah, yeah. And that’s a whole nother thing that What was that?

Unknown Speaker 32:43
opportunity to meet her or

Unknown Speaker 32:45
while she’s in Colombia. And she doesn’t speak English. I don’t speak Spanish. And it’s just been like, you know, it’s, it’s deaf. I definitely been avoiding it to an extent. But at the same time, it is a lot of trouble to go to a different country, to you know, a country that you don’t speak the language and she lives in a pretty bad area. So just planning that has been difficult now with COVID. Like, it’s just another layer of complexity. And she’s also like seven years old, so I’m terrified, kind of To be honest, that I’m never going to meet her because she might die and she has COPD. So she might, yeah, so I got to figure that out myself.

Unknown Speaker 33:34
Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 33:37
We’ll see. But, uh, yeah, so what would be your message to? Don’t be your message to adoptive parents?

Unknown Speaker 33:55
Know.

Unknown Speaker 33:58
I think a lot of adoptive parents will be like, No, I didn’t do anything bad. I didn’t do anything. You know, we aren’t trying to vilify those who have bought into this narrative. We aren’t trying to vilify those who have participated in it. We’re trying to change, you know, and I think he might not have done the right thing, but do the right thing. Now. You know, you might not have been trauma informed, be trauma informed. Now. Listen, now, you know, treat us with the same respect you would want someone to treat your dog with when they’re coming out and telling the story. What an adopted parent asked me like, what my advice would be to adoptive parents. And my whole thing is a lot of times like when I was growing up, and I’d have like a little struggle or I’m a big person, like I if I’m going somewhere like I know like to know what to expect. And if a sudden change or something would happen, you can kind of read it on my face that like I’m although just taken aback by it. And it’s just because like, of my experiences kind of just don’t like that kind of lack of control change on me. And a lot of times, like people around me interpret that as Oh, like phrases being annoying again, like, oh, like, you know, gosh, why can’t she just like both flow instead of being like, oh, friends, you know, I’m sorry, I know, you’d like to plan ahead, you know, but we changed this call, you know, just acknowledging that sometimes it’s difficult for me to be like, you know, it’s just because we’re faced trying to change Shannon Lee, you aren’t a bad person or bad for that, that you struggle with certain things, you know, it’s just part of who you are. And, you know, part of what you have experienced to be here with us. And, you know, we accept you and you’re not a burden. burden, I think, you know, when a kid, you know, on a holiday on their birthday, you know, if you have a party for them, and they start crying or whatever, you know, you can’t build by people who are struggling and adoptive kids struggle, adoptees struggle more, and there has to be some kind of like a level of compassion and understanding, separate connection comes in, you know, how can you understand someone struggling and get closer to them?

Unknown Speaker 36:38
I think I missed that. I think I missed that last. You guys

Unknown Speaker 36:48
are struggling. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 36:52
Yeah. No, it’s it’s, it’s true. And that further, it’s what you said further supports that. That idea or that kind of suggestion that adoptive parents are so insecure, and they project their insecurities onto their adoptive children. Because like the whole the fact that we need to constantly say, we’re not vilifying you, we’re not vilifying you we’re not vilifying you like, the fact that we’re so terrified that our parents are going to think that we’re vilifying them is further evidence that shows that we’ve been growing up terrified of hurting our adoptive parents when it should have been almost the opposite.

Unknown Speaker 37:51
Well, anyway, what’s your what’s your final message to adoptees

Unknown Speaker 38:01
that I am really passionate about for 2021 is if you want to get involved, want to get involved, that you don’t have to do something big. Be involved. You know, a lot of times I hear people like Well, I didn’t you know, I didn’t write a book. I don’t have a podcast. You know, like I am friends with so you like a content creator you abuse, you know, you are writing a book, it doesn’t have a beginning or an ending. It’s just what you’re good at and what you can contribute. You know, maybe you don’t want to put your opinions out there have you know, blog where you write your personal feelings, but maybe you help someone moderate a group, you know, on Facebook, I know there are lots of groups out there, you know, the moderators are at work during the day, you can always moderate what’s going on and, you know, offer to help moderate a group you know, follow like and support other people who are creating content, you know, words of encouragement, there’s so many different ways to get involved with the work that’s going on. And, you know, do what you’re good at. Getting artwork is something that you’re good at, that can speak to people. People get online all the time, and you know, they might just look at behalf back to your adoption story or, and find your content and could really speak to them and really help someone who’s in a bad spot in their life. You know, their focus is to get involved in this community. Don’t feel like you have to do something big or don’t feel like even have to like expose your personal self out there. There are ways to be involved, that help support and really make a difference in this community. And

Unknown Speaker 39:58
all the local

Unknown Speaker 39:58
that everybody is doing that, you know, when I get a message, after an episode that I do the call this I love that episode that really encourages me to keep going. And that person is so helpful in my journey. And, you know, my whole thing is let’s keep inspiring each other. Let’s keep encouraging each other and do what you can. So don’t feel like you have to always do something, you know, if you have to step back, step back, you know, but I just want to encourage everyone to use their voice however they feel comfortable doing so and I just want to encourage everyone to have a good

Unknown Speaker 40:38
yeah, that’s awesome. I really liked that you mentioned. You know, just even commenting on something like, I know, like, I feel like so many adoptees as myself, I feel so like, I feel like we’ve been so invalidated for so long, that we appreciate positive comments. And we appreciate people who actually show appreciation to like an extreme amount. So I can literally like count the amount of times that somebody messaged me and said, like, thank you for what you’re doing. And every single time that just fills me up with like that validation meter so that I can keep going for the next couple of weeks. But I definitely feel like if you don’t get that, that validation kind of starts to deplete. So like you just mentioned sending, making a comment saying I appreciate this so much sending a message. I appreciate this. So much like that goes a long, long, long, long way for adoptees specifically. I think that’s a great, a great way to contribute to people is literally one comment. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 41:49
you know, if you’re out here and you know, you might not feel like you can do huge advocacy thing. But if you see something, someone joins where you work, you know, if you if someone is right, wrote something that speaks to you. Let them know and if you feel comfortable share their work. That’s kind of one of the best things you can do for someone is to encourage them to share their work with others.

Unknown Speaker 42:18
Well, cool. Thank you again for jumping on here. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 42:22
absolutely. Thanks so much for having me.

Unknown Speaker 42:25
We’ll keep in touch thanks, bye.

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